How do you improve your chances of getting into the business school that's best for you? To address this question, Business Week Online's guests on Mar. 15 were Sally Lannin, an Edina (Minn.) consultant on B-school applications, and John A. Byrne, senior writer for Business Week.
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OnlineHost: Good evening and welcome! Tonight Business Week Online has a special treat for everyone interested in furthering his or her business education via an MBA--a conference on how to make the most of your chances of getting into the best B-school.
Business Week's guest expert is Sally Lannin (SLann), president of MBA Strategies, a consulting firm in Edina, Minn., founded in 1985 to help applicants increase their odds of admission to the best B-schools. Sally Lannin counsels individual applicants and conducts seminars for corporate clients. A former McKinsey consultant, she has a bachelor's degree with honors from Stanford and a master's in management from Northwestern's Kellogg School.
With Sally Lannin onstage is Business Week Senior Writer John Byrne (JohnByrnBW), who created BW's biennial rankings of the best B-schools. Beyond that, he has written about executive pay, the disenchantment of middle managers, the folly of management fads, and corporate culture. He's the author of five business books, including the fourth edition of Business Week's Guide to the Best Business Schools--in bookstores now.
John Byrne will help interview Sally Lannin--as well as offer expert guidance himself. The moderator of tonight's discussion is Jack Dierdorff, consulting editor of BW Online (JackBW). And now on to your questions on how to get into the best B-school.
JackBW: Good evening, Sally Lannin and John Byrne.
JohnByrnBW: Hi, Jack, and welcome, Sally.
SLann: Hi, Jack.
JackBW: I have an opening question for you, Sally. If you could give just one piece of advice to a would-be MBA about getting into the best B-school, what would that advice be?
SLann: Take advantage of the opportunity to get some outstanding real-world working experience before applying.
JackBW: Sally, Heat4217 asks about a specific school.
Question: Is Arizona State University a good B-school?
SLann: Re Arizona state, when assessing the quality of a regional MBA program, I ask my clients what do they want to do professionally when they finish school and what is their objective in getting the degree. If firms they're interested in recruit at Arizona State and the school's curriculum meets their educational objectives, then great.
JohnByrnBW: Sally, do you think it's easier to get into an elite school this year or more difficult?
SLann: Far more difficult. Applications are up, for example. Applications at Stanford Business School are projected to reach 7,000 this year. That is a 50% increase over last year. In addition, a lot of the other top 10 business schools are also experiencing a rise.
JohnByrnBW: Why are applications rising so rapidly now?
SLann: There are a couple of reasons. First, positive press on business schools in publications such as Business Week contribute to people's interest in seeking the degree. Second, economic pressures have also contributed to the rise. The MBA is being seen as a positive investment.
JohnByrnBW: I suppose that last-minute applicants have the odds stacked against them. True?
SLann: To answer you, John, yes, last-minute applicants do have the odds stacked against them. It is very difficult to get into a program at the last deadline, though not impossible.
JackBW: John, Chaddabox has a question you can answer, from BW's business-school rankings.
Question: What are the best MBAs?
JohnByrnBW: The best MBAs? I wouldn't select a business school solely on the basis of a ranking. I would try to find a school where I could pursue my interests, one that matches my personality. What's best for one person will not be best for another. Sally, isn't that a key to successfully applying to a good school?
SLann: I agree. I would also add that when one is deciding whether to apply to B-school, I wouldn't worry whether a school is ranked first or fifth or seventh. Instead, I would pay attention to the curriculum, which differs significantly from school to school. In addition, I would pay attention to how the courses are taught. There's a world of difference between the case- study method and a more theoretical method. In addition, I would look at the size of the school. There's a big difference between 800 people at Harvard and 160 at Tuck [Dartmouth's Amos Tuck School of Business]. Also, the cultures of schools can differ fairly dramatically. Some, like Harvard and Virginia, foster a competitive environment, whereas others, such as Kellogg [Northwestern], foster more of a team approach.
JackBW: However, John, why don't you share with the AOL audience the names of the top few schools in the BW rankings last October?
JohnByrnBW: For what it's worth, our latest ranking has Wharton at the top, followed by Kellogg, Chicago, Stanford, Harvard, and Michigan.
JackBW: Jalun's question fits right into what Sally has been saying about curriculum.
Question: What are some of the most innovative things being done in terms of teaching in B-schools?
JohnByrnBW: Business education is becoming far more practical these days. Many MBAs now work in teams on outside projects with real companies. That's where a lot of new learning is taking place. Also, there's more of an emphasis on so-called integrative teaching. Rather than teach a single discipline like marketing or finance, more schools are trying to teach how these different disciplines are related.
JackBW: I B Scoob has a strategy question for Sally Lannin.
Question: Are there strategies for those who have excelled on their GMATs, but whose undergraduate GPAs were less than remarkable, for gaining admission into an MBA program?
SLann: Yes, there are. Specifically, I would recommend that if possible you take two quantitative courses--such as calculus--and get As to prove that you can do the academic work, and add a note to your application that explains your weak undergraduate performance.
JackBW: GOIRISH1 also has an admissions question.
Question: What can you tell me about waiting lists? I've been wait-listed at Darden. Do I have any chance of getting in?
SLann: With regard to waiting lists, I recommend doing three things. One, write the school a letter telling it what's new in your job and in your community involvement, while underscoring your continued interest in their program. Second, get someone to write an additional letter of recommendation, somewhat unsolicited. Finally, if you haven't visited the campus in person and attended class and met with someone in the admissions office, I'd do that. Do it all before the end of April, because in May the schools will rank-order the wait list [to determine who gets priority if openings occur].
JohnByrnBW: Sally, earlier you said good work experience is essential to a successful application. What are some of the other key factors?
SLann: Good question. I'll use this opportunity to list the key factors essential to a successful application--not necessarily in order of importance:
1. Academic ability. In other words, you have to prove that you can perform in the classroom.
2. Problem-solving skills. That means do you ask the right questions in order to answer a problem?
3. Proven management skills.
4. Proven leadership skills.
5. Proven interpersonal skills, and the ability to work in teams.
6. Proof of superior professional performance.
7. Clarity of your career objectives.
8. Clarity of your educational objectives. In other words, do I believe you are after the skills or only the degree?
9. Finally, commitment to a cause. In other words, something matters to you outside your work life and you've done something in that arena to make a difference.
JohnByrnBW: Sally, what are some of the common mistakes applicants make?
SLann: There are several common mistakes. First, applicants are too vague about why they are interested in B-school. Second, they apply too late. Third, they don't convince the school they have a keen interest in its program. Fourth, they don't "coach" their recommenders.
JackBW: Nicobar1 follows up on your key factors, Sally, with his question.
Question: What, for example is a proven leadership skill, as opposed to a proven management skill?
SLann: Good question. Proven management skill means that you know about motivating, developing, training, and know that different people respond to different management techniques. On the other hand, leading means that you have been elected or appointed to things by peers and superiors, that you're an initiator vs. a reactor, a visionary, a risk-taker, that those you lead are changed by you, and that you think longer-term than a manager.
JackBW: Now another curriculum question.
Question: What's the state of "experiental education" in B-school curriculums?
SLann: Another good question. Many schools are trying innovative courses in response to the market's request. For example, University of Chicago was criticized for being too theoretical, and so put forth a "touchy-feelie" course. Also, Harvard is in the process of experimenting with an abbreviated MBA degree in an attempt to fill a market niche.
JohnByrnBW: Over the years, I've heard some outrageous stories of how applicants have tried to stand out from the pack by using crazy gimmicks. Do you advise against videotapes and other tricks?
SLann: Yes, very strongly.
JohnByrnBW: Why?
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SLann: The average admissions person will spend about 15 minutes on your application. Stick to the questions asked--you get credit for being concise.
JohnByrnBW: Do you have a favorite story to tell about a gimmicky application?
SLann: I had a client two years ago who had a letter of recommendation from the Pope.
JohnByrnBW: Really?
JackBW: Did the client get in, Sally?
SLann: No.
JohnByrnBW: Why didn't it work?
SLann: Letters of recommendation need to really speak to the performance of the applicant. And it is far better to have a letter of recommendation from someone who can use actual, tangible examples from you in your work life than a letter from the Pontiff.
JackBW: I want to pause at this point to say that there have been a number of questions asking Sally and John to comment on specific schools. Tonight we want to focus on strategies for applying. You can find a wealth of information about 44 B-schools in BW Online's Best B-schools area [accessible via the What's New button on the opening screen] and in the BW Guide to the Best Business Schools that John authored [now available--it can be ordered from the BW Online Store, via the Offers & Info button].
JohnByrnBW: Sally, how much time should an applicant expect to spend on the application process?
SLann: To answer John, I recommend an average applicant apply to between three and five schools. And it should probably take 10 hours per school.
JohnByrnBW: Should you pick a couple of "safe" schools among the five?
SLann: I recommend an applicant pick one or two long shots, a maybe, and a safe school. Although, if they only get in the safe school and wouldn't go, it isn't worth applying.
JackBW: Beamer4 wonders if any appeals are possible.
Question: If you don't get accepted into the school of your choice, is there a way of appealing? Can visiting the school after they have denied you admission alter your standings?
SLann: To your first question, I haven't heard of much success when people try to appeal a decision. However, you can ask the school in June or July to give you good, honest feedback as to why you were not accepted, and I've found that information to often be very helpful. If you really want to get into a business school, I would visit before you apply and tell them in the application why it's perfect for you. Visiting after you've been rejected is too little, too late.
JohnByrnBW: If you fail to get into a school of your choice, can you find out why and reapply a year or two later?
SLann: Yes. What is important, however, is that you fix what went wrong the first time. For example, if you were rejected because the school has doubts about your ability to perform academically, more work experience won't remedy that.
JohnByrnBW: Sally, some MBA degrees are clearly worth more than others. Should people simply focus on the top 50 or so schools to get the most value from the degree?
SLann: Jeepers. It all comes down to why you're going back to school. If you are solely trying to accumulate technical skills and you want to stay where you are geographically, the name brand of the school is less relevant. If, however, you want to maximize your career opportunities internationally and maximize the network of people you'll know post-graduation, I'd stick to a top 20 school.
JackBW: John has a question, and it will have to be our last for tonight.
JohnByrnBW: Sally, any advice for the last-minute applicants who are feverishly completing the paperwork in the last two or three weeks before the final deadlines?
SLann: Focus on my earlier points, with regard to what matters to the admissions committee. It is far better to wait until next year and do a thorough job than to lob in a half-baked application this year in an attempt to appear historically interested.
JohnByrnBW: I'm sure that at this stage of the process, many of your clients are trying to choose among several schools that have accepted them. Any advice on making those final decisions?
SLann: That's true. I would visit your top two choices, attend class, meet with a couple of professors, talk to companies you may be interested in working for post-graduation, and ask for their success with graduates from those programs.
JackBW: Thanks, Sally Lannin, for this helpful and informative session. And thanks to you, too, John Byrne.
SLann: Good luck to all those applicants out there.
JackBW: A week from tonight, same time and place, there will be another BW Online special conference on getting into the best B-schools, with special guest Hank Malin, director of admissions at Dartmouth's Amos Tuck School.
OnlineHost: Thanks to Sally Lannin, John Byrne, and the Business Week team for this expert advice on how to into the best B-school. If you'd like to keep talking, we invite you to move over to the BW Online Chat Room. Or you can post your comments or questions in the BW Online Message Boards (try Management and Legal Affairs, where among other things there's an Ask John Byrne folder).
Transcripts of all BW Online conferences are available soon after the event (look under Special Events, Talk, or Search BW). While you're at it, explore all the features of BW Online (keyword: BW).
And mark your calendars for a conference with BW editors or newsmakers every Sunday at 9pm ET--plus another conference on getting into B-school next Wednesday, Mar. 22, at 9pm ET here in the Bowl. Thanks again and good night!
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